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- Subject: Final Farewell??
- From: Tim <>
- Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 23:38:36 -0500 (CDT)
- Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ;
- Resent-Date: 29 Sep 1999 04:44:35 -0000
- Resent-Message-ID: <y3ftyC.A.5ID.zkZ83@murphy>
Hello to all,
Let me just preface this by saying that these are my views and comments
and mine alone, not those of the LDP. I'm not asking for pity, nor a
shoulder to cry on.
<have a seat....this could be lengthy>
I've sat back and watched once again as my name and the job I do get
dragged through the mud. This time I can't and will not sit back and
watch this happen *again* and turn my back.
As for the complaints and removing of documents , all I can say is this,
I'm sorry for the problems that occured and I'm sorry that he felt that he
needed to be 1) rude and 2) disrespectful not only to me, but all others
subscribed to the list. This is my personal opinion and not necessarily
those of others, so don't go blaming the LDP for the comments that I am
making. These are *not* the views of the LDP, these are my own personal
views and comments. Please don't confuse the two.
Many times I have asked how I was doing, I've asked for suggestions and
assistance. Rarely if ever do I receive a comment one, but let one person
have a complaint (in a very imperfect world I might add) and the walls
just come crumbling down.
Like it or not, the LDP has progressed and I have assisted in this
process. No one has once asked how the processing of HOWTOs actually
works or even cared enough to do so. Some discussions did take place, and
I did try to explain, but I honestly don't think anyone was listening (I
feel this a lot).
I've asked for feedback from authors/maintainers and even made suggestions
that they get more involved. This was over a year ago (probably close to
2) and no one had time or no one cared to respond at any length. I asked
if the authors/maintainers would like to assist in approving documents
submittals and I got 0% response.....that's right nothing.
I've created pages for updates and for current projects to allow others to
know what's going on and to hopefully get them involved. Did this
accomplish anything? Honestly I don't know b/c no one has ever bothered
to comment on them.
It seems that the ldp-discuss list (and others) has become nothing short
of a means of pulic humiliation and I'm not just talking about myself.
This is *not* what the list is for. Public bickering back and forth has
no place on this list. Sure, it may help you to get your point across,
but if that's all you want, then surely you could find a better means.
I've even publicly made available my pager via a paging server. Do you
think I did this for kicks? It was done to give anyone who wanted
*direct* access to me for whatever reason they had that ability. I'm not
asking anyone to use it, but I did state that it was there to be used if
you needed it.
I understand that a lot of time is spent by authors/maintainers updating
docs. But do you think the rest of us have no other life outside the LDP?
We all (I assume) are responsible adults and I find it a crying shame that
more of us don't act like it when presented with a public forum.
It's not my nature to be a downer or have a negative attitude and I feel
that I've held my head high for good reason in regards to being the HOWTO
Coordinator. I'm not perfect, nor is the job I do, but I do take pride in
it and that should account for something. ???
As for the missed/lost docs that have recently been brought to
ldp-discuss, again I have apologized...publicly.
There have been many new additions and many updates to the HOWTOs (I use
this generally I include mini-HOWTOs and FAQs) and to accuse me of
deliberately ignoring someone or deliberately setting their update aside
or basically just having better things to do with my time is unacceptable,
untrue and a complete disrespect to me and what I do.
In the past (whether there were complaints or not) I asked if others were
happy with what I was doing. I've even asked if anyone would like me to
step down and look for someone else to take my place as the HOWTO
Cooridnator. It was rather quiet, but the comments that were made
appreciated what I was doing and asked that I hang in there. Where are
those folks now when push comes to shove?!?
When you believe in something strong enough you'll do what you can to
survive and keep it going. This is how I felt (feel more often than not)
about the HOWTO Coordinator position and the LDP.
I must say this.....the way the move (if that's what you want to call it)
from Metalab (formerly Sunsite) was handled was inexcusable. This I'm
afraid *is* a direct reflection on the LDP. I do not blame Guylhem for
how things were handled nor should anyone else. People did nothing but
complain about the way things were going and Guylhem asked for feedback
and as with me got little response and the majority of the responses were
not solutions but rather threads that turned into many lines of
nothingness, meaning that nothing was ever being resolved so he took
matters into his own hands. Was this not the reason that he was *voted*
into position? It's his job to deal with the flack and I think he's done
so. People may not have agreed with it, but there was action and in the
long run that's what we asked for.
As for the Copyright/Licensing debate that's been going on (for how long
now?) I'm afraid it has gotten old and extremely tired. I think it's
great that we come up with something that we can *all* live with, but the
area seems to have been completely blurred between Copyright and
Licensing. And to think that we can at this time mandate something of this
sort is beyond me. The LDP is *not* in the position to mandate a matter
like this, at least not right now. My personal opinion is that
an unofficial "offical" manifesto should be written up and put out for
public display and scrutiny, and let's move on. What is in place now is
sufficient and has been for all these years with minor tweaking along the
way. I've always told authors to use what's in place if *they* are
comfortable with it....not me. If they choose to tweak it to *their*
liking then that is *their* perrogative. Please for the sake of the LDP
let this matter be put aside. Perhaps someone outside the LDP would be
more suitable for this task?
As for the CVS matter, I will say this. *I* (and don't believe that
anyone else did) did not turn down Metalab there offer of CVS? As
a matter of fact, the one person (me) responsible for getting the updates
to Metalab has not even discussed the matter of CVS with anyone at
Metalab. Another mis-communication, I would say, but it's problems like
these that we're trying to improve on. Yes, I have been working on a CVS
solution, does that mean that I would not choose to use Metalab if their
services were offered, not only no, but heck no. I would gladly accept!
I am working on the finer details of the CVS and how things will be
handled. Everyone assumes that all these processes are magically
implemented, ok maybe that's not assumed, but it's definately the
impression left by many comments. To just throw all the doucment source
out there and made available via CVS won't solve anything if measures are
not put into place to protect the docs and their processing/updating? If
it's only a CVS that's needed/wanted then sure, gimme an hour or two.
This is not our goal! Long term solutions is the bottom-line.
I have been preparing a revised QC manifesto that will be published by the
end of the week. I hope this will solve and/or answer many questions. My
main objective here is to give all authors/maintainers a means of tracking
progress. This along with the quality of work *will* be our main
objectives. And some sort of bug tracking will also be implemented.
I have talked to Guylhem (not at length) about making my final comments to
ldp-discuss on all the uproar the past few days, so here I am.
Unfortunately he misunderstood and thought I was wanting to step down.
This was not my intent, but the thought has consumed me over the past 24+
hours and perhaps his misunderstanding is something I should actually
consider at this point.
If the LDP is suffering because of me then the matter should be addressed
and handled appropriately (respectively goes w/out saying). I will
entertain the idea of stepping down if it is in fact in the best interest
of the LDP. Linux has given me far too much to let my pride get in the
way of progress.
As for disgruntled authors removing their documents from the LDP, just
doesn't sit well with me. Sure, if that's what they want....then let them
move on. I honestly can't believe this is the route they would choose to
take, but if it is......well perhaps they should. I do know this, if
every disgruntled Linux coder had the same views, we would *not* be having
this dicussion b/c there would be no Linux. To up and go taking your docs
with you is just plain childish. That is *not* directed at Vladimir, but
more to any author who feels this way. If I have personal comments for
any author, I'll do the repectful thing and personally make them.....not
Perhaps this is my undoing, but I honestly felt that something had to be
said. I have too much respect for everyone involved to just let it pass
and allow the discomfort that is present now to continue. I owe it to you
as well as myself to rectify any and all problems/complaints that are
directly related to me.
Linux HOWTO coordinator http://metalab.unc.edu/LDP/HOWTO
email@example.com, firstname.lastname@example.org (HOWTO's)
http://wallybox.cei.net:5119/cgi-bin/pageme.cgi (Alpha Pager)
D I P C
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