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correction on command name (Re: Unidentified subject!)


In article <Pine.LNX.4.21.0006252138590.1087-100000@startext.demon.co.uk>,
  at Sun, 25 Jun 2000 22:11:06 +0000 (GMT),
 Martin WHEELER <mwheeler@startext.co.uk> writes:

> At the risk of starting a flame-war, I would (personally) advise you to
> rigorously eschew *anything* beginning "sgml2..."
> (This is because sgml is a generic term, but is currently being used by
> some in the LDP world to variously refer to specific instances 
> of SGML markup, such as debiandoc, linuxdoc, qwertzy -- I've lost track.  

I don't wish to start a flame, but I wish to point out several facts.


The tool for qwertz DTD written by Thomas F. Gordon is included in 
sgml2latex-format.1.4.tar.gz which I got from ftp://ftp.gmd.de/GMD/sgml,
and the command name to process the qwertz dtd sgml source in it, is
just "format".  It is a small shell script and it uses sgmls, sgmlsasp,
and expand.  (and the name of the DTD is "qwertz", not "qwertzy".)

In README file from sgml2latex-format 1.4, you can read:

  | This is the qwertz Format README File.  Format is an SGML to LaTeX
  | translator.  It consists of
  | 1) SGML document type definitions (DTDs) for the LaTeX document styles
  | (articles, books, reports, letters, slides), for BibTeX bibliographies
  | and for Unix manual pages.  (The main DTD is called "qwertz", which is
  | also the name of our AI planning project for which the system was
  | developed.)
  | 2) Programs for translating SGML documents of the these types into
  | LaTeX and groff.
  | 3) A command for extracting source code from documentation, which is
  | useful for a simple kind of "literate programming".
  | Format allows LaTeX documents to be created using powerful and
  | comfortable SGML editors, such as Author/Editor, in a quasi WYSIWYG
  | manner.  It also provides a layer of abstraction from LaTeX, allowing
  | documents to be more easily translated into formats for other document
  | processing systems, such as nroff/troff or MS-WORD.

The linuxdoc-sgml package also used the same command name "format", 
in its early stage.  The names for commands such as "sgml2..." was
introduced at version 1.4 of linuxdoc-sgml (17 October 1995).


Yes the documentation for Debian currently uses debiandoc DTD,
but the command name to process them is started from "debiandoc2" 
(There are 9 such commands now).  There are no command names starting
from "sgml2" in the debiandoc-sgml package.


SGMLtools-Lite has the command to process the DocBook DTD sgml source,
and its name is "sgmltools".  Do you have complaints against that name ?
(sgmltools can be used to convert the SGML source from the LinuxDoc DTD
into the DocBook DTD, so it is not the specific to ONE DTD precisely.)


XFree86 has used their own linuxdoc-based DTD which is called as xfree86.dtd.
Their processing tools originates in the tools for the FreeBSD Documentation
Project, and the name of the command is "sgmlfmt" as well as the original one.
The FreeBSD community had created and used their own linuxdoc-based dtd.
Their names are freebsd-1.0.dtd and freebsd-1.1.dtd.  They are included in
the source archive of doctools which can be downloaded from the ftp site of
the XFree86.

I think that The FreeBSD Documentation Project has started the
migration to DocBook DTD.  You can read their status in their own 
word from: <http://www.freebsd.org/docproj/sgml.html>

The doc team in the XFree86 project recently started the migration to 
DocBook, too.  Dave Pawson aggressively send the converted XML source 
file with the current XFree86 DTD source file.  He also has sent a
stylesheet "lind2docbook.xsl" before doing the conversion.  I haven't
checked the contents, but it seems to be able to transform the SGML
source written in the XFree86 DTD into the DocBook Version 4 XML.


The LinuxDoc DTD is just created (or "hacked up", as written in its User's
Guide) for "use particularly by the Linux HOWTOs" (again, as written in its
User's Guide).  And the User's Guide of Linuxdoc-SGML said:

  1.2.  Why SGML?

  I chose SGML for this system because SGML is made specifically for
  translation to other formats. SGML, which stands for Standard
  Generalized Markup Language, allows you to specify the structure of a
  document---that is, what kinds of things make up the document. You
  specify the structure of a document with a DTD (Document Type
  Definition). Linuxdoc-SGML is one DTD that specifies the structure for
  Linux HOWTOs and other documents. QWERTZ is another DTD; the SGML
  standard provides DTD's for books, articles, and other generic
  document types.

  The DTD specifies the names of ``elements'' within the document. An
  element is just a bit of structure---like a section, a subsection, a
  paragraph, or even something smaller like emphasized text. Unlike
  LaTeX, however, these elements are not in any way intrinsic to SGML
  itself. The Linuxdoc-SGML DTD happens to define elements that look a
  lot like their LaTeX counterparts---you have sections, subsections,
  verbatim ``environments'', and so forth. However, using SGML you can
  define any kind of structure for the document that you like. In a way,
  SGML is like low-level TeX, while the Linuxdoc-SGML DTD is like LaTeX.

  Don't be confused by this analogy. SGML is not a text-formatting
  system.  There is no ``SGML formatter'' per se. SGML source is only
  converted to other formats for processing. Furthermore, SGML itself is
  used only to specify the document structure. There are no text-
  formatting facilities or ``macros'' intrinsic to SGML itself. All of
  those things are defined within the DTD. You can't use SGML without a
  DTD---a DTD defines what SGML does.

It clearly stated that the DTD is not the SGML itself, at lease I think

> Look for something called "db2html"; or "docbook2html".
> (i..e. *specific*, not generic)

These names are used in docbook-tools by cygnus.  An introduction to use
the DocBook DTD and this docbook-tools are distributed from:

> >  If a documented method can
> > be established for all writers to have enough "ease of
> > use" with Docbook I would be willing to work with
> > various individuals and organizations such as the LDP
> > and OASIS to try to make it a standard for the
> > industry as much as is practical.  
> Difficult.  But go ahead, certainly.  Various industries, large
> publishers, medical organisations, the military, etc. have long had
> their own DTDs specifically written for them, to cover their own
> specific tech-doc requirements, and are unlikely to change.
> Competent tech-doc writers just learn a new DTD, rather than try to
> persuade all employers to dance to the same tune.

BTW, Marc Andre Selig wrote on sgmltools-lite-discuss:

   "I have taken a snapshot of the current CVS tree for sgmltools-lite,
    tweaked it to fit into a Red Hat 6.2 standard installation and created
    an RPM package.

    I have also created a package containing EPS versions of the icons
    included with Norman Walsh's DocBook stylesheets.  You will need these
    to produce PS documents using sgmltools-lite.

    Together, these two packages should make installation of sgmltools-lite
    extremely easy for users of Red Hat and compatible distributions.  Get the
    packages, install them using rpm -i, and everything should be ready.

    All files are available from http://www.sedacon.com/download/:

    These are the md5sums to verify package integrity:
    d3366cf0ececff6ce9622389383b965a  nw-eps-icons-0.0.1-1.noarch.rpm
    0ea9fa970bf77daac91c4b3e7bcb9eed  sgmltools-lite-3.0.1.cvs20000625-1.i386.rpm"

If you use a RedHat 6.2 or some compatible system, then you can try them.

Debian provides also the packages for sgmltools-2 and cygnus-stylesheets 
with other required packages for the coming next release, aka potato.

  Taketoshi Sano: <sano@debian.org>,<sano@debian.or.jp>,<kgh12351@nifty.ne.jp>

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